Todd: OK, Jeff, you're a writer.

Jeff: A little bit.

Todd: OK.

Jeff: Hobby!

Todd: OK. Talk about writing.

Jeff: I write, I think you, writers write about what they know. So, and I don't know much so....so it's difficult, difficult to be a writer. Now, writers write about what they know so, um, I'm writing, I have a manuscript now about, uh, um, travelling, the people, the people I've come in contact with and, uh, what I thought about then, in the situation we've been in when we've met, sort of thing. But it's difficult, it's not easy, it's not an easy thing to do. At first I did sort of thinking, mm, anyone could do it almost if you put the time into it but now I think it's very difficult, you, you have to be creative, and it's a lot harder than I think it seems, to pick up a finished product, a book, um, a physical book, or to take a book from the library, I think it's, you underestimate the time that has gone into it. It's a long, lot of effort behind it so..it's fun, I like it, but it's very difficult. But it's good.